Narcissistic Biomom...(long)

[luckystepmother]

It is disgusting that some parents use their children as pawns in their little games of manipulation. My ss's mother is so self-absorbed and selfish that she can not see past her own issues to do what is best for her children. My husband and his ex-wife split years before he and I met, but you wouldn't think so by her behavior. In fact, the split was because she refused to stop partying and sleeping around (she even admitted to sleeping with his younger brother during the marriage-low class). We both know what a vile human being she is but the children don't. She tells both of my ss that if daddy loved them then he would come back, if I was out of the picture that he would come back. Of course, she doesn't really love him or want him back at all...she just doesn't want him to be happy. I don't believe she ever loved my husband. This of course, is of no real concern to either of us at this point but it is hurting the children...she doesn't care though. How do you parent effectivly without sinking to the level she is at? My oldest ss has lived with us now for about 6 weeks. He has had a very bad history for the past few years in school-barely passing since 3rd grade but just skimming by b/c he can pass the standardized tests at the end of the year. He moved in with us b/c we provide a more stable environment. We were surprised that she let him come (there is no legal custody arragement from their divorce-only a verbal one b/t my husband and his ex). But as I found out from my mother-in-law yesterday, she only let him come b/c she hoped that it would stress our marriage out and we would break up-not b/c the child desparatly needs the love, encouragement, discipline, and stability that this house provides. Disgusting...He has a bedtime of 9pm on school nights (way past the time I went to bed at his age...but whatever...). She knows this, in fact she and I got into it earlier this week about it. Studies have shown that children need no less than 10-12 hours of sleep/night. If they do not get this sleep they often times show signs typical of ADD/ADHD, daytime restlessness, hostility, lack of focus, and a whole list of other issues. You would think that she would care about this. That she would encourage her son to get the rest he needs-but no-she uses this as a power stuggle. Even last night she told him to stay on the phone with her until way after 9pm b/c she had to "tell him something important." She knew that I would have to "make" him get off the phone with her (his father was out to dinner with an out-of-town business colleague). Thus, making me out to be the bad guy b/c I was "forcing" him off the phone with her, making it look as if I am not allowing him to say goodnight to his mother and younger brother (even though I am the one who reminds him to call her to say goodnight and he called her at 8:45-plenty long enough to say goodnight to both is mother and brother). She even somehow made his younger brother cry and ask to speak to me. At this point it is a quarter after 9 (he's six and still not in bed-but does she care-no!) and I have a six year old child asking me why I won't let my oldest ss talk to him and his mother. He told me I was mean to make him get off the phone and that I must not really love them. It broke my heart to know that she had instigated this whole thing for the sole purpose of hurting me and husband. Unfortunately it is hurting the children-my husband and I have an amazing relationship. My husband arrived home and had a heart-to-heart with his son. I figured that his son would speak more freely if it was just the two of them-so I took a step back on this little battle. My husband explained to my ss that he is here to improve his life, that he has a real chance to make a future life for himself with us. That he knows the house rules here and that he must do what is right for himself, regardless of what his mother is encouraging him to do. Do you know that he actually tried to take the blame all by himself for this phone thing? In fact, my husband said it took a long time to get him to admit that his mother purposly kept him on the phone by telling him she had to tell him somthing important-of course she never had anything specific to tell him but he didn't know that at the time. He is so used to covering for her that it comes naturally at this point. Sad...

So how can we be the best parents possible while we have this horrible person trying to turn the children against us? How do we combat their brainwashing without telling the boys just how terrible a person she is? We don't want to ruin their relationship with their mother but she is backing us into a wall here. I know one day she will have to answer for her behavior and actions to her children when they grow up and begin to ask questions-but how do we get through this for now?

I know this is long, I appreciate anyone who reads this whole thing...perhaps some of you have had to deal with this before and might have some helpful suggestions.


Thanks!

[Kitty C.]

LSM, if my parents taught me only one thing, it was that actions speak louder than words.  I even told Mom that not that long ago.  I told her that they had always lived their lives in moderation in all things.  They never went to extremes with ANYTHING.  That was a lesson WELL learned!  My parents never actually SAID 'I love you' very often, but they DEFINITELY showed it every day!  Their actions spoke volumes to me, as far back as I can remember.

You are DH are doing everything right with your SS.  He's still young and very impressionable, especially by his mother.  He's also at that stage where his parents could NEVER do wrong in his eyes.  But it won't be long when doubt will start to creep into his mind.  Not just because of circumstances at home and what he's dealing with in regards to his mom, but it's a natural progression in a child's growth.  At 7 y.o., my SS had heard and seen enough, and had started doubting enough, to begin asking DH when he would be old enough to tell the judge who he wanted to live with.  Every child is different in their growth, even between siblings, but it WILL come.

In the meantime, know that you are doing everything right by them both.  If you know in your heart that what you are doing is right, no matter how hard the PBFH pushes, then nothing else matters.  And with that talk that your DH had with him, I can GUARANTEE you that the next time the same situation happens, your SS will remember that conversation and start to recognize what his mother is doing.  It will take time and patience, on the parts of all of you, but it will come.

[nosonew]

Listen to what Kitty said, it is sooo true!! I/us went thru the same thing and now ss lives with us per his choice.  They do see, and if YOU don't act like her at all but act like a loving, caring adult who DOESN"T make up stories or lies, etc., they do see, eventually.  They don't want to, of course, but they do, eventually see the truth.  Patience on your part is what counts, and make sure he lives with you for 6 months, then get a court order after that to keep him!

[zachsdad]

"I know one day she will have to answer for her behavior and actions to her children when they grow up..."

I think what you said here is the key.  One day, SS will begin to acknowledge (and even question) the actions of his mom.  It sounds like you're doing the right thing by not battling with her.  Instead, you (and more importantly, dad) are discussing the issues with SS and where BM is off kilter.

I think the question that you have to ask yourself is, "What is her motive?"  When you find the answer to that question, her actions will not bother you so much because they will appear as a malicious (and ridiculous) attempt to destroy your marriage.  She can't have your husband, so either can you.

Kitty said it best.  It's tough for now, but SS will begin to understand.  And when that happens, he will begin to distance himself from her inconvienences.  Kid's don't like tough rules at home, but they tend to stay in a regimented, organized, devoted family.

Communication with SS about BM is crucial, but don't be a basher.  Sounds like you're doing everything right.
 

[littlebit]

Wow!  This could be my story down to the last detail!  The last straw for me was when BM told son "I would rather die than be apart from you! And then there will be no one to take care of your little brothers!"  Yes, it's SICK!  So I now have an attorney and am preparing for battle.....but that's a story for later.

Please please please get this book: 'Divorce Poison' written by Richard Warshak (I got it from the local library).  I'm not a big advocate of shrink books, but this one is totally different.  It shows lists of PAS characteristics and the actions to expect (and they could not be more on target).  But more importantly, it gives very specific advice on how to deal with this brainwashing of children, instead of suggesting to just ignore it and wait for time to pass.  The book gives great examples of what to say to your kids to help them understand what is going on, without stressing them out even more.    

The author says very little about how to deal with the PAS / narcissistic parent, mainly about helping the kids.  It also helps keep on track by reiterating what not to do, so I will not be like the nutsy BM!

Hope it helps!
little bit's Dad

[IceMountain]

This is actually IM's wife :)
I just want to thank you all for the excellent advice you gave here.  I am literally sitting here crying because I can see my husband's ex-wife in what you have written.  

We have had our heart strings pulled so much recently due to her manipulations on my SS.  He is such a sweet boy.  She has turned him into a very nervous and anxious child.  She, too, was taking him to a counselor who she refused to let my husband talk to.  She made appointments on days my husband was to pick up his son and then suddenly they would be canceled, etc etc etc.

Last week she called my husband because my SS had a nightmare that he came to visit and we wouldn't take him home.  It broke our hearts.  And as I was reading back through our documentation log today, she had a conversation with me a couple months ago concerning this 'fear' of his.  

It's so crazy, have any of you experienced such nightmares?  My SS was sobbing when my husband got on the phone with him.  I just don't understand it.  We are so good about verbalizing time frames with him ex. I'm going to see you in 4 days, or, You'll be with us for 2 days and then you will go back to your mom.  We've never given him a reason to doubt we would take him back home.

We talked with him about it and he told us that he trusts us 'a little' when I asked if his mom trusted us he said 'I don't know' while shrugging his shoulders.  Then I asked, if your mom trusted us, would you trust us?  He replied 'yes'.  

He is 6 years old.  I, too, want so hard to believe that when he is older he will be able to see the truth.  When he is with us he has responsibility and discipline and rules and we make him accountable for his actions.  When my husband and I first got together, my husband was very lenient with him.  He still is sometimes.  I, on the other hand, have always been consistent in discipline and rules.  (I work with children so it just comes natural, and I've seen the benefits of consistency, etc. enough to make me a definite believer).  I'm not a harda*s, but I mean what I say.  Anyway, my SS was so craving the consistency that I gave him.  In a matter of months my SS was coming and running to me rather than his dad at pick-up time.  Of course, the ex hated this.  And, now, of course, I'm the cause of all the conflict in our little situation.  She can't stop for even a second and just appreciate the very positive relationship my SS and I have.  I wouldn't give him up for the world.  I'm so lucky to have him because he has taught me unconditional love in a way that even marriage could not.

Anyway, I'm so sorry for the long post.  I just wanted to get my story out there.  I feel so much better knowing that we are not alone.  I'm going to research narcissism.  I'm really intrigued by this now.

I'm glad to know that we are on the right track with just showing unconditional love and stability in my SS's life.  What a relief.

IM's Wife :)

[sweetnsad]

I also agree with what Kitty says...also, some sort of disengagment on your part would help...try to avoid her at all costs unless absolutely necessary.  That's what I had to do, to maintain what little bit of sanity I had left.  BM would do everything she could to break us up..cause stress, make up really awful stories, etc...and not because she wanted my fiance back..noooo, just because he was deliriously happy with me and she hated every minute.

Keep your chin up...it will all come in time.  :)

[Kitty C.]

Proof positive of that old saying 'Living well is the BEST revenge!'

I don't know of any PBFH who has steam rolling out of her ears if she realizes that her ex is actually HAPPIER than she is.  Whenever ours gets pissy, I just remember that and SMILE!!!!!!!